CFDs are complex instruments and come with a high risk of losing money rapidly due to leverage. -- % of retail investor accounts lose money when trading CFDs with this provider. You should consider whether you understand how CFDs work and whether you can afford to take the high risk of losing your money.

Darwins / signal copy reality

Any type DD recovery pattern where the DD quickly “snaps back” again and again combined with a D-leverage increase at every trough could mean adding more and more to positions, holding losses longer and longer and or trading more and more frequently during DD periods. All of which are forms of an increase to risk to subsidize a speedier recovery out of DD. (BTW, employing such a recovery technique increases long-term risk over-all vs. any given over-all expected long-term reward/return. Not to mention is EXTRA likely to have much larger intra-day DD spikes than the Darwinex stats are showing because DD data at Darwinex is currently recorded as infrequently as once per day to once every six hours.)

To be fair though, any excellent trader who is masterfully scaling in only when trades move against her original position would have have a similar pattern. I think properly scaling in would have some leverage spikes at troughs and the ones that she got stopped out on then might have a flat period while she patiently waited for another high probability trade then she would start small again with small leverage (even though she may be deep in DD.)


loving the steady queue of people trying to educated others on this forum - it’s cute.

I do not know about the EA, but I totally agree about the abnormal dip and rebound on the equity curve.

“I do not know about the EA, but I totally agree about the abnormal dip and rebound on the equity curve.”

yes EA is conspiracy of course, the chart tells us enough… :slight_smile:

Dear @pecuniafactorem - Firstly, sorry that I’ve been so absent from the forum lately. I have every intention of dropping by on a weekly basis - hope I can build the habit.

Secondly, there’s a few points that can help here:

On the point of “martin-galesque” there’s no need to hypothesise - the whole thing is plotted on the second curve. On first sight, I haven’t seen behaviour different from previous instances.

Thirdly, on the point that I recommended HFD. This is an area on which I personally have to thread very carefully. I’m engaging in direct conversation with you guys on the forum because I think it’s the right thing to do, and I have every intention to continue prioritising this over other items. But I’m a human being like you guys, and I make mistakes all the time :slight_smile:

Konstantin hasn’t promised any returns to anyone, and every investor in HFD has all the above statistics to inform them + Konstantin does his best in providing disclosure on the different threads. Whether or not our (Darwinex’s) or his (Konstantin’s) is good enough is in the eye of the beholder. There’s MANY things we need to improve, and every constructive feedback is taken very seriously.

There are limiting factors here:

  • Darwinex has provided the same disclosure before and after the drawdown. The D-Leverage plot was there for everyone to see, and so was the Rs grade.
  • Konstantin didn’t encourage to lever up from 10% - we’re called Darwin Exchange (as opposed to e.g. Winnie The Pooh-Nex) because we do our best in providing disclosure and curation (risk-management), and thereafter it’s survival of the fittest on both the manager and the investor side.

On that note, if you ever feel that I personally endorse HFD in my current capacity as company CEO, please call me out immediately, because I shouldn’t. Our Exchange Ethos is incompatible with our publicly endorsing any provider - be they tall / short / profitable / unprofitable etc. We have to respect absolute neutrality.

Having said that, I am a person and a user of our product, and all I can say from that standpoint (that of a fellow long time user of the service) is that I personally haven’t sold my HFD investment. I look forward to receiving your thoughts on the above, and will do my best to clarify any misunderstandings.

Thanks for engaging with us either way!


@pecuniafactorem here I come again :slight_smile:

My personal codename for DARWIN portfolios is Mendels -> DARWIN proved evolution by natural selection, and Mendel through genetic engineering -> thus the analogy with what’s effectively a fund of funds.

It is technically possible to replicate another investors’ portfolio. We have implemented the solution for a couple of professional asset managers managing DARWIN portfolios on behalf of clients. Before we release the functionality, we’re working on several initiatives:

  • Rolling out non mean-reverting, beta carrying assets -> stocks etc.
  • A re-alignment of our investor business model with our vision, which we plan to complete in 2020
  • A review of the manager compensation model to overcome what we call “the diversification curse”. Imagine an investor in a hypothetical portfolio with 2 managers, 50% pro-rata allocation of 100 bucks where DARWIN A makes e.g. 10% and DARWIN B loses 10% would end up the quarter 1% down at 99 -> losing on account of the performance fees paid to the winner, which weren’t re-couped by the loser.
  • A business model which aligns Mendel investors with Mendel & underlying DARWIN managers
  • A market for capacity rights (Tinder for DARWIN managers and DARWIN investors, including Mendel managers). One issue that currently penalises our model is the high water mark and many investors’ gift for “buying the highs and selling the lows”, which results in capacity misallocation
  • Deciding on whether or not we’re willing to extend the regulatory umbrella afforded by our asset manager to Mendel managers.

So, the answer is - YES, we have every intention to power that model. But as you’ll gather from the above, many milestones before we release the existing Alpha functionality to the public. Happy to cover any questions!


You did as above… 28th Jan and you have just done it again here declaring holding onto a holding.

I have specifically referenced HFD subsequent to that as my post was very timely - HFD has dropped from +206% to 151%.

The point I made was that I selected a diversified portfolio. For ~6 months work it is underwater at ~1% - obviously I can get more in a bank at 0.0000% interest.
I had setup accounts on the main signal trading sites to compare whats what before I invest with any of them hence my post.

Re: the data - unfortunately having seen both sides (I trade on Darwinex and setup a Darwin “ONO” to test my assumptions) unless I had the raw data in front of me I wouldn’t stamp approval on it.

I don’t want to get into a bun fight on this - I am just saying what I see as a customer that I wouldn’t invest at present. Ultimately - if I am thinking it, your potential customers will be thinking it too, the HFD DD will be a factor and can obvioulsy be damaging to a great company.
I am a big fan of Darwinex and I recommend you to anyone and everyone who I speak to as #1.
I get a commission rebate, I get FSCS protection, I get insurance and I get a properly FCA regulated company.

The second part to that was stating that many of the social trading sites are clearly running martingales or dubious stats given we now know MT4 is being gamed across the industry by people with access to broker servers - obvioulsy that isn’t the case here, as you run your own book.
Hence my impression the reality of retail trading is, it is far more sobering than anyone realises and not many are making consistent profits at all.

1 Like

@pecuniafactorem I think the reality of trading (retail or otherwise) is that few people make consistent profits at all. Our approach to this is be 100% transparent about it -> the only way to make the winners credible is to publish THE WHOLE THING - including both the winners and the losers.

In other words, the losing majority is what makes the winners credible. That’s why we’re called Darwinex :slight_smile:

On the subject of trader performance - Darwinex is a 2-sided marketplace. And this has a HUGE:

All of Darwinex is built on the premise that Alpha exists, and that if you offer talent the best deal, they will choose to market through you. All we’re doing here is walking our own talk. We may privately (I’m talking with my personal Juan the user hat) agree or disagree whether our existing manager pool is good enough, but what I can tell you is that 2 years ago everyone’s investment results would have been substantially worse than today, and that more and more people are doing better and better, on both sides of the equation.



let us know when the Darwin Investment Portfolio Manager thing is up - we will be all over that.



Not martingale/grid?

1 Like

Next time put a little more meat on the bone.Here,I fixed it for you:

You might also check a thread that also contains your posts and maybe you overlooked it:


You seem pretty animated seeetpea.

What are you trying to show me / what is your point?

I am questioning myself about your motives.If you don’t know about martingales or grids,that is OK.

You don’t come across well at all.

Your posts are a mix of, “darwinex is great”, to, “This platform has a problem of not enough good quality,consistent traders ,so that investors could relatively easily build their portfolios.”

I know more than you on testing and running martingales, what’s your point?

I don’t have a motive, I have given my honest opinion - it’s clear what is going on and why the top 50 or so Darwin’s are where they are - excessive risk and they go bang - I have tested the concept myself.

So you opinion is that HFD is a very well concealed martingale.

It’s clear he is using excessive risk in loss or after a loss.

If you study some of the top ones or so same story can be found.

I wouldn’t invest in those with the mad equity curves - they will go bang.

I just proved it to myself I couldnt break into the monthly top 20 and I’d made 45% on the month on my real account - what on earth are they doing to be in top 20? The associated Darwin of a live account is a synthesis of that.

Both.It is the best we have,nothing is better than Darwinex at the moment,for retails.I have studied and tested darwinex as trader and investor.And I have posted some 300 posts here with experiences,ideas,proposals,criticisms,predictions,analyses…I can’t compose portfolio of 5 according to my tastes,previously I tried one,after several months of serious study,with 10 and it didn’t go well.I had to stop it,reasons are buried somewhere in my October-January posts.Too much to repeat.Here results:

I would like mass of good traders not only for myself,but for less experienced,non-trader investors.So that this investment platform could really take-off. 30 Mil.AUM or so,is really small.There could be 300-500 Mil. of retail investments easily.
By the way,you are attacking one of the best traders here.Undermining this platform.Read my posts in that thread I gave you a link.

1 Like

so you have made 0%. Which proves everything I have written above.

“Undermining” - you’ve just shown 12 months “work” for a 0% return.

Im not reading anything of yours thanks.

With regards to HFD - I am not “attacking”, its a factual observation that anyone with enough experience can see.

You have some very confused and odd takes.

The two images you have posted in this thread only serve to prove my points.

Won’t be engaging with you further - it is clear you are not all there.

***** 29/03/2020 - I had Bianka reinstate this thread because it was deleted - I have taken copies of this thread should it disappear again. Given what happened I will not be continuing to participate in this “forum”*****

1 Like

That is all I need to know, in addition of your masterful knowledge of martingales/grids you showed here in this thread.
Since I presented my analyses in HFD thread,you were nowhere to be found and now you started your malicious work again.You were defeated 100%.