CFDs are complex instruments and come with a high risk of losing money rapidly due to leverage. 66 % of retail investor accounts lose money when trading CFDs with this provider. You should consider whether you understand how CFDs work and whether you can afford to take the high risk of losing your money.

DWEX the dynamic index made by Darwinex

What I’m trying to make you understand is that I have a doubt about their copyfund.

A web page is not enough to convince me. After 8 years of forex experience, a performance must be certified. I do not say it’s wrong, I say that I have a serious doubt.

So before saying e-toro have succeeded where Darwinex failed, we would have to be certain that the products are comparable, in short, to have invested on both.

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  1. The typical etoro investor still believe that 100% annual is possible so individual traders have thousands of investors while “low return” copyfunds have only some hundreds.

  2. Individual traders can be invested with 100$ while copyfunds have to be invested with 5000$.

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Dwex, Dwx failed but was or is young !
The Performance exists:

https://ctaperformance.com/wntn
10 years track report ! Good manager.

https://www.barclayhedge.com/research/indices/cta/sub/curr.html
Barclay Currency Traders Index
An equal weighted composite of managed programs that trade currency futures and/or cash forwards in the inter bank market. In 2017 there are 58 currency programs included in the index.

Nota: Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future trading results. The funds represent speculative investments and involve a high degree of risk. An investor could lose all or a substantial portion of his or her investment.

Edit: The VaR of the darwins seems to me too high again. 5%Var95%-Monthly will be better for investors.

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https://www.etoro.com/funds/gainersqtr/stats
478 investors and every investor has a minimum of 5k
so more than 2MM AUM everything seems right
https://www.etoro.com/people/trex8u247/stats
consistent with 2700 investors but an aum lower than 2MM here in this trader

I dont’ want to promote copyfunds but push Darwinex to finish the work with DWEX.
DWEX was to improve not to remove!

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If they improve spreads and swaps like they talked about in the Q&A, this should improve overall Darwin/Portfolio Performances. This is the most important, i look forward to.

To build a profitable buy & hold portfolio we still need more good Traders/Darwins in my opinion.

Once an API/backtest is available it also should be possible to proof if a different calculation of Dscore might be better (if you do your own math with the raw data). But the Problem will remain, a nice return does not proof much, same with a nice Dscore, since the Darwins are not based on fundamental values, but on a random traders, doing whatever they want.

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When there will be 100 darwins with 3y of profitable trackrecord it will be easy to build a profitable portfolio.
An efficient DScore shoud be able to distinguish good traders from lucky gamblers.
IMO they should work to improve DScore not just wait for more good traders.

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I agree that a portofolio backtester would be a must. One must realize that the APIs are a delightful promise but not quite many people will have the skills or patience to handle them and appreciate the true value it can bring. So basically, APIs will tear appart the users between the ones who can squeeze the juice and enjoy the fruits and those who can’t.

Even better than a backtester, here is what C2 imagined and I believe it is the most right way to do it


Basically, it is a user friendly, beginner minded, time machine with which you can look at the strategies’ state into the past at a specific date, then perform decisions to build a portofolio just like if you were there that day, then there is an engine that forecasts results into the future (actually our present) much like forward testing.

@javicolonbo please consider to release a look-a-like tool for us, similar in spirit. It would become an instant must-have and help all kind of average users understand what’s the true impact of IAs, Dscore and so on, over time. Everyone would benefit !

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Regarding a possible “time machine forward tester”, please consider a way that we could build up and down a position, that is add or remove Darwins over time, as well as scale-in and scale out, and of course consult IAs / metrics historically backward and forward, which I believe is data you already gather :wink: That would make it a most complete killer tool for people to stick around.

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It would be great to know the results after one year of investing.
:sunglasses:

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Since June 2018 we are investing 4 million after calibrating the new D-Score. It is important to share that the aim of DarwinexLabs is to make money, but with the biggest possible number of DARWINS in the portfolio.
You can get much better results with less DARWINS.
The backtest takes into account:

  • Performance fees
  • Divergence (using past data)
  • Diversification rebates

DARWINS are chosen only since validation date, this is the reason why the backtest starts in April 2017 (Darwinex reloaded).
If anyone is invested by DarwinexLabs he will see it in his performance fees section.

From YTD DarwinexLabs has achieved 6% return, but with another algorithm and worse D-Score data.
I don’t think anyone else has achieved what Darwinex is doing. We expect to increase the investment if real returns are similar to this backtest.

Please, I am sharing this, but don’t expect more clarifications. Let the time tell if we succeed or not.

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Is this gonna be available for investors any time soon? Also, is the new D-score the only criteria you choose which darwins to include in this DWEX ?

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@asder34

:wink:
Having said that I dont’ think DScore is the only paramter/rule for the strategy.
By the way for me the comment by @javicolonbo is worth more than ten podcasts.
The important thing is results.
When you have results only sky is the limit.

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On 31st of January 2018 I started a similar project: My actively managed “DARWIN fund”. I think it would be a great invention if “DARWIN managers” could be copied the same way as it applies for regular DARWINs. Here’s my performance:


@javicolonbo do you think that “DARWIN funds” like mine or “DarwinexLabs” can become available for investors? I’m absolutely sure that this would be revolutionary for all guys here :-)!

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I dont know if thats a good or bad idea to be honest I need to think about it. What I do know is that
managing/trying to create a portfolio of darwins is almost a full time job. Personally I started using the platform 1 year ago cause the idea that darwinex is based upon seemed revolutionary but I have come to understand that understanding this idea and getting results is a whole different thing.

I would not have guessed that getting results/profits from good traders is maybe more difficult than being a good trader :slight_smile:

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I think the real problem is the following:
There are hundreds of million trading accounts out there. Thus there’ll ALWAYS exist a lot of great performances even over a longer time period thanks to coincidence. And there’ll of course also be some impressive performances due to really profitable and robust strategies. But how can an average investor distinguish between the lucky monkeys and the real pros? I think it is impossible. For a professional evaluation you must either be a pro yourself or have a deep understanding of statistics and know how the trading industry really works. So an average investor must find a professional asset manager (DARWIN fund manager?) who can be trusted and really knows what he’s doing. Of course the latter must be proven by track records and publications etc.
I’m ready to accept this challenge :-)!

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hi @asder34, @BenHardy, @CavaliereVerde
Darwinex should take steps in that direction…, with preoccupation of aligning each investor with traders / systems that are more likely to archive their goals… not easy but needed…
social trading is normally not align with mid/long traders, that normally “know” better what they are doing… your post remembers me what i read some years ago. and it is the reality long time ago… and it will be ever…


OldSchool

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I don’t think you have to be a pro to make money investing darwins but it is not so easy as it could seem.
If you are a trader you make money, to make money as investor you need traders.
Without quality material you cannot make money even if you are an expert.
When I arrived on Darwinex 3 years ago there were maybe 5 darwins with a DScore over 70.
Now we have ~100 .
This means that while trading is as difficult as 3 years ago, investing is much more easy today…
Social trading sites are brokers, they have to make money, when there were no traders around they sold scammers.
I am not an expert of Zulu but today eToro is completely different than 6 years ago when I started there, I think only the name is the same.

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I am also using etoro (about a year or so) and to be honest I dont think there are many guys worth copying there. That was the case when I started with etoro as well. I am not following new etoro traders that closely but from what I can tell most investors are going for the 100% yearly and… getting busted

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As long as you have wrong expectations like annual 100% you can only lose money, here, on etoro, everywhere…
Quality is much higher here than on eToro but now also there you can find traders (really stockpickers) that are beating the market from 3 years or more, tipically with 20% annual.

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Yeah thats true but I am still amazed that almost every investor flocks to those 100% guys they bust and repeat it again…

Etoro I use it for stocks as well and apart from my own selection I copy only one guy at the moment Trex8u247, if you have any other suggestions to take a look at I am all ears.

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