That is a card issued by IB , they don’t pay excess profits on another card.
Issuing a debit card is like becoming an e-wallet.
That also was very asked on old uservoice.
It is a solution adopted by many brokers.
And what about withdrawals?
If you are willing do deposit large amounts it means that you are running a profitable business not only playing to the trader, people do not run business with credit cards.
At the top of my head / memory, I was able to withdraw 135k € through card at GFT UK broker (single time) of mostly winnings, when it still existed (it was since merged with CityIndex/Gain Capital). The payment back was splitted into a myriad of smaller amounts (unrelated to my initial deposits). I’m guessing for accounting reasons which I did not figure out. But it encountered no more problem than it leading to an extensive card statement. The withdrawal took 3 days to arrive from the initial request and was 100% FREE
While 10k seemed a good limit for deposits it seems to be not enough for @EvidenceAlpha that will be happy only with “unlimited”.
The limit isn’t technical, for sure. I’d say it’s more about anti-money laundering AML regulations …
(Yes, you’ll comment : “but, other brokers…”. My comment would be so : I really wonder how they handle such regulations, so …).
The problem is fraud.
I would like to explain again what it can be like to live abroad regarding banking so you understand better the situation of the citizens outside of the UE (where banking is easy, almost a second nature).
In France, they either never open accounts to andorran citizens or reverse their opinion early. Exemple, I was pre-acknowledged at Societe Generale, then they kicked me out without further notice as soon as I started to make transactions (wire transfers) after the director of the agency reviewed my case more in depth. Probably, my risk/reward generation was insufficient. They treated me like a dog, I was not even able to speak to someone to explain myself.
In Andorra, I got kicked out of 4 banks out of the 5 that exists for only doing wire transfers to forex brokers… It appears really silly on the outside but this is the truth. This oractice is against the risk sensitivity of their compliance department. Also they sell forex (and other trading) products themselves at 10 to 20 times our prices, so it may be a mean to force that business through them as well. I’m not sure. I rather think they just dislike it for money-laundering fears.
I have since used the 5th bank of Andorra which is the most easy going but it comes with a price to pay. It is the most expensive. They are also not practical at all: their web interface is dated and not functionnal, I cannot even initiate a withdrawal request by myself (online) without needing to visit the agency and sign papers. The card limits are low so I have to request to lift them always at each of my actions. They will also block my card when I’m using it too much (that is, multiple times of little amounts instead of single larger amounts) then I have to pass phone calls to explain them that a fraud is not going on so that they unlock it… it takes time and energy to work things out, you see ? Sometimes they inspect the incoming money movements and ask for precisions what they’re about.
In the end, I cannot try to initiate a wire transfer to a forex broker with them, because there is no way I can risk to lose my last onshore bank option or I’d fail to live here (there are some daily expenses which absolutely require a local bank account). The law in Andorra doesn’t force banks to keep opened at least a single bank account to the residents… you can be rejected everywhere and it happened to some. There’s nothing to claim afterwards. So I’m not tempting the devil. I already did my best with plenty of trials.
Then there are the offshore banking options, but again, there’s nothing easy about such move. Plenty of options now do not work with bodies outside the EEA or with specific exceptions (Andorra), so there are little options to begin with.
Lately I was using TransferWise and PaySera (described on another thread). TransferWise banned me 2 days ago
Again, no discussion possible… I don’t know why exactly
PaySera, well, I’m encountering a bug since 1 month : they suddenly fail to send SMS codes to mobile phones of Andorra, worth for all customers from Andorra (the numbers here are special, very short, only 6 digits. Often, I get complications with online services that are not ready to support it). So I cannot initiate actions at PaySera anymore… because the SMS verification is a mandatory security measure.
I’ve exchanged 20 emails to fix the SMS bug since 1 month but the resolution doesn’t advance at all. The situation is stuck.
This is just a sample of the maze banking abroad can be. I’m running out of solution. I’ve got still little options to explore, where it’s likely I will also encounter troubles or suffer from the services really be not affordable.
Am I an isolated case ? Unfortunately, not at all… there are whole forums where foreigners are nowadays discussing banking problems.
People there desperatly seek solutions. I’m participating myself. Because a solution is generaly temporary only. There are services I used in the past that today closed or had untolerable issues. So you have to plan backup solutions in advance, etc… it’s always moving.
So yeah, being able to do large cards for me is the best option (not even perfect). That’s where I focus my attention and for now getting the least troubles from it.
Seems a daily nightmare …
It is… it is tiring. Right now, I don’t know what’s next. I need to brainstorm to find a stable setup, eventually
Maybe Darwinex could ask for pictures of the credit cards (masking the CVV and middle numbers) like other brokers do to prevent fraud and allow higher limits? Also maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_customer_authentication could help? It applies a liability shift to the card issuer from fraud, so merchants dont need to pay back chargedback amounts, and SCA will be mandatory soon in the EU.
Also some broker ask for a screenshot of the PayPal/Skrill account dashboard to prevent fraud and offer higher limits.
Thanks for this, @SayCanYouRun!
Better something more than something less but I dont’ find it so disruptive…
Generally every bank has Visa and Mastercard.
What people really need is a true alternative to wire ransfers for unlimited deposits and withdrawals.
Actual support to eWallets is more aesthetic than useful.
I wasn’t reacting to it as “disruptive”, on the contrary …
I couldn’t understand such “shutdown” since long time for a classic funding source (Mastercard payment).
Indeed, an improvement in such area, would be appreciated, I suppose …
Also, the limit of Skrill was raised from 2k to 5k (still lifetime)
Yes but the 150% for withdrawals has been regressed to 100%, so refund only like credit cards
Refund only is normal for cards, but if eWallets are refund only what’s the point? They are useless.
For once, I think I agree that it can be better to “force” at the lowest threshold the withdrawals by wire transfer (for all means of deposit) since the fees charged by Darwinex are reasonably priced. It all depends, but you could save on the % part since Skrill has multi-level fees (% + fixed) when you withdraw back to your bank …and the speed of crediting back will then be vaguely similar to wire transfer directly out of Darwinex.
Skrill is only worth if you’d want to transfer again towards another Skrill compatible broker/casino/merchant.
I’m more concerned about the ways to deposit, but understand it’s also a banking problem on the sender’s side.
I was pre-approved at BBVA and Santander in Spain.
BBVA offers “immediate transfers” that arrive in 10 seconds… limitation : max 900 € per transfer / max 5k € per day (cost = 0.9 € per transfer). More than that, you pay 0.5% but it then cannot be done online, and requires to contact your account manager or a local office.
Santander, also offers “immediate transfers” but only towards Spanish compatible banks (6 €), up to 15k € per transfer. Past this, 0.6% to request offline again…
Yet, the main problem remains, as of now, only very few banks are compatible for such instant transfers (the departure and arrival banks both need to support the function)
So, not very practical, the bank connections are still a long way to go to be fast and cheap (independant of amount sent) like cryptos in all case scenarios.
Increasing limits of Skrill and PayPal would imply to cash out more on them due to AML reasons. Alas not much welcomed, because of their fees and limitations.
The real improvement would be to raise the card limit, despite this statement.
I’ve now made transfer speed tests between EEA banks and brokers at different hours of the day (to figure out the processing time of the entities, mine do it by the end of the afternoon) and a wire transfer is taking between 18 to 36 hours to arrive, far from instant
Card deposits are never an option for future brokers, but since Darwinex uses a “wallet” up front the trading account, I’m wondering if they could disrupt this practice (yet, no point with a 10k limit so I’m dreaming)
Ok but this credit cards and instant deposits may be interesting for you…
Real problems are customers from remote contries paying expensive wire tranfers and waiting for WEEKS !
Maybe those customers would set their business with Skrill or Paypal, fund them with a card and then spend the profit with their debit card
This is impossible with these kind of life limits.