CFDs are complex instruments and come with a high risk of losing money rapidly due to leverage. 64 % of retail investor accounts lose money when trading CFDs with this provider. You should consider whether you understand how CFDs work and whether you can afford to take the high risk of losing your money.

Professionals (trading for a living)

Thanks very much!

I like him also very much and have read very meny of his posts and every thing he says I agree on, and I can understand him when there is a noob like me comming with false facts multipe times.

Lets say like this, from the beginnin I just scrolled the top darwines with meny of them have impressive numbers/stats. But then ive scrolled down a bit, and dont want to mention bad darwines, but there are guys out there with over 20,000 from darwinex thats having over 55% DD and this really comes as a chock for me,thats why iam spamming questions.

LOL this should be an answer to SAFTX, I made one more mistake.

Allocations aren’t real money, Darwinex is not risking anything.

There are a lot of topics about Darwinia but Darwinia has nothing to do with professional trading neither professional investing. :wink:
Darwinia is a tool to talent scout and pay promising traders.

This is the landing page for investors:

And these are the “Top Traders” :


I spread my money over my accounts, according to the profit they can generate,
A far fetched, but widely spread, idea, that anyone shows his full equity here.

many reasons why.

  1. traders oftentimes have multiple accounts with multiple brokers to spread risk and also to take advantage of different features, promotions, and offers.
  2. Many traders are building their track records for the future and would like to earn a 2nd source of income, and therefore they can offer trade copying or fund management while still working on other jobs.
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spud webb(atlanta hawks) tyrone bogues ( charlotte hornets) and more and more… Spud(1,69) and Tyrone (1,59) … life put the people in your site.

A post was merged into an existing topic: Filtering out marti-grids

I have done some calculations.
Using complete calendar years the annualized return of NTI is 13.5%
You defined a max investors’ capital of 800k.
Let’s suppose Darwinex will attract much more capital and you reach that AUM.
Your average annual growth for your AUM would be 108k for an annualized performance fee of 22k.
This means you expect to never live or get rich as darwin manager.

This is not a criticism to you but is it really possible to make a business with Darwinex for an intraday low capacity trader?


As a side note: the max investors’ capital is just an estimation by me but I think this number should be close enough to the tipping point where divergence would become too high (can’t know for sure though).

Of course I won’t ever be able to live off my Darwin NTI. Fortunately, that was never my goal :wink: … Financially, trading my own capital is far more rewarding as I also pay less taxes on those earnings compared to income generated through performance fees.

If a manager is living in a country with rather low living expenses and is able to either create a strategy that is
a) yielding higher returns
b) has more capcity
c) generating constant returns with short recovery periods
He stands a chance to live off his trading as the sole source of income. A different possibility would be to create a portfolio of many different diversified strategies (which is also very hard to do).

Personally, I would think though that for most people, treating their trading just as an additional source of income, is the more sustainable approach as they will be able to bear longer periods of drawdown and have less pressure (which allows them to trade more robust strategies and generally make better decisions).

We can constantly see what happens to the get rich quick wannabe money managers. They apply some kind of grid, martingale, never lose pray and hold type of strategy in order to generate a constant stream of income.


100% agree, never thought trading as a solution for unemployed people, I was curious about your plans.
IMO there are 2 alternatives for short term traders.

  1. wait for a better liquidity from Darwinex
  2. add strategies on higher timeframes

Generally speaking traders have an high degree of scientific education and a decent job.

I agree also that limiting the AUM is a solution, if you have a capacity of 1 million you can reserve part of it for your personal tradiing where you get 100% of the return, I think ERQ is doing this.
Similar reasoning can be done for WFJ and PLF.

  1. invest in more profitable manual traders on Darwinex platform and get 80% of their profits.

I like the openness of everyone here on this topic.

I think there aren’t many traders making a living off their trading to be found on Darwinex, or any other Social Trading platform for that matter (there are of course exceptions).

I mean, if I had a Trader’s Equity of €500k, aiming at ~1 or 2% p.m., I’d live very comfortably.
At that point, why would I even bother trying to make investors happy and expose myself in all kinds of different ways?
For me personally, it is the lack of available equity that made me turn to a social trading platform, which gives me the opportunity to leverage my built-up skill and experiences and get it backed by money I don’t have.

Also, should I ever get rich from trading, I would very much down play my accomplishments in conversations I have, and only a very small and select group of people would know the truth of my wealth. There’s truth in that rap song title “Mo’ Money, Mo’ Problems” you know :slight_smile:


A post was merged into an existing topic: GPV - fxcryptoexpert

At the moment I can count only 4 professionals with:

  • a website
  • a registration
  • a physical address
  1. @finbou
  2. @VPSEnry
  4. @meshulro
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What’s your opinion on this subject?
You know I consider you one of the best traders here but your earnings are concentrated in 2016 and 2017.

I would define your degree of skill and education extreme . :slight_smile:
Is this enough or do you need extreme skill + extreme luck ?


Thank you for your kind comments there @CavaliereVerde:pray:

I would describe myself as passionate and hard-working…

Whether that translates to skill or not is a function of perception… during my drawdowns, I would likely not be perceived to have skill, but during profitable rallies, I would.

Perception of skill is mean-reverting at best… :slight_smile:

In my humble opinion, it is important to have a solid work ethic in any discipline anyone wishes to pursue.

Trading is just one such discipline.

Skill is a by-product of practice -> the more of anything you do in a smart evolving manner, the more comfortable you become with it as time goes on.

Like riding a bicycle, or doing linear algebra… (seriously)

Education can often be too broad to help anyone do anything in practice…

What’s important is “focused” education in specific areas that matter, that will help people with specific objectives (e.g. are you a Quant or a Technical Analyst? -> different learning paths).


Without common sense, none of the above can help anyone :slight_smile:

One of the issues faced by a lot of traders, is the illusion that a trading strategy should e.g. last forever if it really has alpha to exploit, and that “optimization” can assist in “adapting” such edge to the market’s dynamics.

This way of thinking is the cause of much distress for many traders when it comes to strategy research, e.g. in backtesting.

For example, none of my trading strategies use “timeframes” to construct data series.

This is because as a Quant, my perspective on “data arrival” is different to that of a Technical Analyst’s.

I don’t for instance, believe in the validity of time-bucketed data series as they don’t exhibit statistical properties that render them reliable to include in my research.

The above is an example of “common sense” that I refer to… for ME it makes no sense to do so… BUT only in my world of non technical analysis…

In someone else’s world of say Technical or Fundamental Analysis, I would be the one who has it completely wrong and the other person would be completely right :wink:

Above all, work ethic is more important than anything else.

If we truly believe we can improve ourselves, we must put in the effort on a personal level first -> and it will trickle down into our professional pursuits.

My daily work ethic looks like this for example:

  1. I start my day with 30 minutes of meditation.

  2. I then cycle between 10 and 70km every day to and from the Darwinex office, depending on how tired I am from the previous day…

  3. I spend 2 hours locked away from the rest of my world, learning something new or improving something I already know and would like to master better -> this could be trading related or otherwise.

  4. I end my day with 30 minutes of meditation before going to bed.

  5. The rest of my time is split between family, work and sleep.

If I didn’t do this regularly (and I often fall off the wagon… life throws curve balls in terms of time and circumstance for everyone) then I would go crazy… so I try my best to maintain it, and that helps me evolve over time. It is specific to me, everyone will do things differently as suits them.

If more traders focused more on personal improvement before trading improvement, I would bet money that it would undoubtedly lead to improvement in trading of some form or another, not necessarily returns.

Just my $0.02 on the matter :pray:



If I may offer my humble and unrequested point of view on the subject… :innocent:

I wholeheartedly believe that your skill (skill meaning fill-in-the-many-blanks) must be extreme.
But once you reach your ideal skill level (and your competitive advantage is somehow unique), luck starts not to matter so much. This is not Poker.

The Great Don Miller said something along those lines:

“Playing poker has made trading “feel” easy in comparison. Any decent card player knows that the element of short-term luck is a key factor in poker. “Short-term luck/long-term skill” is the winning combination cited by most poker pros. And although on rare occasions “luck” occurs in the markets, such as being long when a surprise interest rate cut is announced, the “luck” factor is pretty much absent in the trading world.

Unfortunately, most “traders” won’t do it… :expressionless:


I agree with your definitions of skill lifestyle and focus on self improvement.
BUT the whole point here is make a living:wink:

The point is this:

So far I dedicated to trading the even more hours of study and research than I dedicated to graduate in chemistry.
Is this justified just for “an additional source of income” ?

Of course there is always a margin of improvement for my knowledge, of chemistry of trading of everything…

Here I am trying to turn my knowledge into profit.
Unfortunatelly I think skill is not enough to generate a Grail trackrecord needed to attract millons of AUM.

Ways to make a living from trading knowledge seem to be:

  • be a broker
  • work for a broker
  • sell courses and books
  • work as a freelance programmer

To sum up everything: providing a service to dreamers.


What are you doing here then? :confused:

That’s a great effort indeed :slightly_smiling_face:

What specifically have you dedicated this time to in terms of trading subject matter, what’s your process been in terms of implementation of what you learn etc etc?

Your thoughts will help the discussion and anyone else reading this if they’re on a similar journey :+1: