CFDs are complex instruments and come with a high risk of losing money rapidly due to leverage. 66 % of retail investor accounts lose money when trading CFDs with this provider. You should consider whether you understand how CFDs work and whether you can afford to take the high risk of losing your money.

Solutions for money tranfers from non EEA

Good news, LeoPay which had ceased its services to non-EEA citizens last year is back on track and resumes…
It’s an EMI from Bulgaria (before, Malta), not a bank, but it provides bank like services

It’s a great all-in-1 alternative to TransferWise and PaySera because you can fund your account by card (1% fee min 0,50 €, which now you can even avoid using the Skrill top up service) like TW, plus you’re provided a real IBAN to fund trading brokers, unlike TW, that performs SEPA transfers (3 €) like PaySera

Forgot to mention : unlike TW & PS, LeoPay is crypto friendly (very rare)

They don’t charge any account maintenance fee and the 2 first debit cards (in the currency of your choice) are also free. Their VISA has 3D Secure

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Summing up the possibilities :

  • 1 day : Skrill > card to bank (free) > PaySera > SEPA transfer (free) > Darwinex
  • 1 day : Skrill > card to bank (free) > LeoPay > SEPA transfer (3 €) > Darwinex
  • couple minutes to 1 day : card deposit (0.3%) > TransferWise > transfer (0.8 €) > PaySera > Instant (sometimes) SEPA transfer (free) > Darwinex
  • 1 day : card deposit (0.3%) > TransferWise > transfer (0.8 €) > LeoPay > SEPA transfer (3 €) > Darwinex
  • couple minutes : card deposit (1% min 0.50 €) > LeoPay > SEPA transfer (3 €) > Darwinex

Advantages :

  • extract from card not wire transfer through an intermediary first, does not alert your bank where the money is heading next (avoid compliance restrictions about forex or crypto)
  • unlimited amount by card to bypass Darwinex limit, cause really using bank transfer deposit
  • avoid expensive wire transfer fees from your home country, especially if outside the SEPA zone, by using a SEPA area established intermediary, open to non-EEA citizens
  • done online, does not need a visit to the bank to initiate a wire transfer when no e-banking is available
  • can convert currency outside your bank for less, at TransferWise or PaySera or LeoPay (in that order of preference) before heading towards Darwinex where you cannot convert

Disavantadges against a direct card deposit at the broker

  • takes more action steps (up to 1, even 2 days more to move the funds)
  • no instant crediting :frowning: plan in advance
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Extra tip : you can also use https://www.icard.com/ to top up their mobile wallet by card for 0.5% less than at LeoPay, then move the funds from iCard to LeoPay (both sites are subsidiaries, same company) for free

However, the daily limit of card top up at either LeoPay or iCard is 1000 € only. Which could be 2000 € a day if both used. Again, plan things in advance (as comparison Skrill is 6000 € and TW not sure but high!)

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It’s interesting : I understand that you have a positive feedback about LeoPay.

Last year, I stepped back from going further with LeuPay / LeoPay.

Indeed, at the same moment, they were facing some… problems :sweat_smile: :

https://www.ft.com/content/64caa038-d79a-11e8-a854-33d6f82e62f8

https://international-adviser.com/frozen-maltese-bank-accounts-leaves-clients-in-limbo/

Nota Bene : just noticed that you already posted this link before :slight_smile: !

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Yeah, I’m aware of this. I was lucky enough to skip my use of them just during that period.
Otherwise, I was always very satisfied with LeoPay (zero problem) so I’m giving them my confidence nonetheless. Guidelines, just don’t use an EMI like a bank account. Don’t transit too large amounts of money, don’t keep money there.

[details=Summary]I am feeling more secured walking on eggs as time passes. Binance (largest crypto exchange) got hacked 2 days ago. My funds are blocked there for at least a week. Just before, Cryptopia got hacked. My funds are locked there …since 3 months. But it’s planned to recover. I’m teaching myself patience when you can’t can’t avoid all risks :slight_smile: I believe that the hacks within the crypto space are now part of the equation. You gotta live with it. They learned how to handle them instead of prevent them. So they run safety funds from profits (or from client losses), release shares (as coins) of their company to the customers when the amounts stolen are too large, so we can win back the losses from their commissions’ generation (way more profitable business than a forex broker). There are solutions to every problem :slight_smile:

This made me laugh big time. I know some crypto brokers split a share of their profits (commissions and maybe some front-runing) as an insurance fund, but this one do not fear to publish how many of its customers blow their account daily :joy: obviously, he’s market making and profiting from the losses :wink: new mojo “your loss, my security” lol anyway, this is to fight the consequences of potential failures (hack / stolen deposits, margin losses from volatility, etc)

[/details]

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Like InteractiveBrokers, who permits to deposit EUR, convert it in another currency (say USD) without a speculative margin trade, then withdraw these USD. Are there other FX trading brokers acting as currency brokers ? At Darwinex and many other brokers, there is no bridge possible between the different base currencies available.
Now that I don’t have access to TransferWise/WorldFirst/CurrencyFair/etc, I need a cheap solution to exchange FX outside of the outrageous 3/4% charged by banks or Skrill

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The latest of my researchs.

I was able to join OFX (minimum currency transfer >150) and CurrencyTransfer (minimum transfer >5000) currency brokers.

Also LYNX Broker soon, which is one of the white labels of InteractiveBrokers in Europe
Advantages over other brokers : base currency conversions are possible, that can be withdrawed + unique ability to withdraw directly towards trading brokers without passing through a bank account & without restrictions (not limited to FCA brokers)…
Advantages over IB : no minimum deposit, no inactivity fees if balance above 1000,
Disadvantages : higher fees than IB, FX conversion for 0.005% min 5 (still low!)

After some calculus, below 1000, OFX is recommended (aside TransferWise), then above, LYNX Broker is always better (always beats TW)
Bye bye TW without sorrow

I’m happy I found a new setup. I really wasn’t sure it was going to happen given the difficulties

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Call to the spanish people : can you please comment if either BBVA, Santander or CaixaBank are crypto friendly and let you wire transfer in and out of well known exchanges (Kraken, Bitstamp) ?

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While an answer by native spanish would be preferrable, what is very clear is that, at least, they are very friendly with cash deposits / withdrawals :slight_smile: .

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At Oanda Europe, unlimited PayPal deposit (for verified PP accounts) and 10k to 50k (Verified by Visa) by card every calendar month.
Why would they be less prone to fraud than Darwinex ?

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I’m extending the list of EMIs (electronic money institutions with bank like services) offering a real dedicated IBAN, compatible to fund a trading broker via SEPA transfer.
For those who don’t live within the EEA, better have choices
EMI are much easier to open accounts at than banks who usually are reluctant to deal with offshore activity

www.leopay.eu (Bulgaria)
multiple accounts in different currencies, bulgarian IBAN, 3 € SEPA transfer, no maintenance fees, 2 cards for free (3rd for 10 € issuance), 3D Secure enabled card, account topup by card available, no USD withdrawal handling, crypto-friendly for personal accounts (not business), fx conversions around 3%, okay support

www.icard.com (UK / Bulgaria)
same than LeoPay but only mobile experience (no web portal), cheaper fees, 1 € SEPA transfer

www.paysera.com (Lithuania)
multi-currency accounts, lithuanian IBAN, free SEPA transfer, no maintenance fees, card for cheap (only shipped to an EEA country, use a mail forwarder), 3D Secure enabled card, cheap international USD withdrawals ($7), fx conversions around 1.5%, good reputation, poor support

www.wirexapp.com (UK)
multiple accounts in different currencies + crypto wallets, some country restrictions (on card + fiat withdrawals) but will open up, luxembourg IBAN, free SEPA withdrawals, no maintenance fees, cards for 1.2 € / month, 3D Secure enabled card, crypto-friendly (including paying services), okay reputation (some funding issues in the past)

www.mistertango.com (Lithuania)
lithuanian IBAN, free SEPA transfer, some (personal) to huge (business) maintenance fees, no more card (should resolve), no USD handling, crypto-friendly (paying services), shady reputation (few reports of account freezings) = avoid

All of these cards are the debit type, better than prepaid cards that will often fail to work at many places

When account funding by card topup not directly available (iCard/LeoPay), use Transferwise (it handle card deposits then withdrawals to 3rd parties, including banks/EMIs)

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All things considered, I don’t use any such services anymore : after 2 months of attempts, neither iCard/LeoPay nor PaySera managed to fix my SMS never received issue so I couldn’t verify the account reopenings.
I’ve signed at Wirex but Andorra is one of the country limited for EUR withdrawals (when bad luck is glued to you, there’s no escape lol)
There are quite other misc EMIs to consider, exemple : Bilderlings (really expensive), Paxum (Dominica Republic, bad reviews) but really unattractive

So, I’ve now investigated real banks within the EEA. It will be those from Spain because my geographical situation permits it. Overall, they seem quite good, in terms of features / services / costs. Not perfect but nothing is. Even then, only the 2 major ones (Santander, BBVA) accepted me, all other ones (Ibercaja, CaixaBank, Banco Popular, Bankia, Self Bank, ING) refused an application.
After review, the latvian (especially) and cyprus banks are too dangerous, swiss banks (CIM Bank) too expensive, other regions outside the EEA (Mauritius, RAK) bring other misc unpleasurable specificities, some other countries are too high standards (Lichtenstein)

Good luck for those in such situation ! It’s not an easy path.

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With eWallets people want to avoid these kind of situation.
Disposing a tranfer and waiting MANY days with uncertain costs.
Clearly eWallets are a solution only if fully supported not just aesthetically.

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I was with Banco Sabadell d’Andorra (separated from Banc Sabadell of Spain). Here, it’s the bank of the poor. Nice friendly customer service, cheapest fees but way too many restriction complications on everything, they kicked me out due to Forex broker wire outs.

At BBVA, which I’ll join over Santander, when a withdrawal transfer is completed, you can right away get a wire statement proof online, which is good to make claims of research if encountering such delay you mention. At some other entities, I was at times struggling to get such a simple document.

Last solution that I very recently discovered welcomes some non-EEA individual customers.
https://www.boursorama.com/
French online bank backed by Societe Generale. I didn’t join them, due to having the nationality, not wanting to have financial interests there, not trusting the full competency of french tax services (fear of unjustified tax residency requalification, then need to fight back). But that can be an option for other foreigners. They carry out the cheapest fees you’ll find (for instance, free ATM withdrawals everywhere in Europe even outside the EEA …on top of no maintenance/card/SEPA transfer fees)

Not sure it can be of use to anyone but anyway
Card to card loading/transfer service, practical and cheap
www.paysend.com

Let’s say you have 4.5% ATM withdrawal fees at bank 1 and only 2 € fixed fee at bank 2, and plan to withdraw 500 € of cash, then Paysend will help you save 23.50 €. Card transfers can take only a few minutes

Ahh,I figured it out, it’s cheaper to fund a bank/EMI account inside the EEA zone from a non EEA card …than to use Transferwise (1.5 € versus 0.35%)
A card transfer automatically credits the associated account linked to the card, otherwise PaySend also offers direct card to bank account transfers.

We’re close to full optimization now :slight_smile:

Nice EMI compilation, thanks :slight_smile: !

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